tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331917990627226586.post1106907888588807690..comments2023-08-29T04:35:15.852-07:00Comments on The Trent Philosophy Blog: Wagner: The musical genius's legacy...Neil Turnbullhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07757980706607642699noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331917990627226586.post-1648960113917076732010-07-23T11:42:42.181-07:002010-07-23T11:42:42.181-07:00To deny oneself the oppurtunity to experience grea...To deny oneself the oppurtunity to experience great art, out of distaste for the artist, is to profoundly cheat oneself. Yes, racism is a despicable mindset, but to let Wagner's disgusting beliefs keep you from experiencing great art is to be a very sad, retentive moron.<br /><br />The music dramas of Richard Wagner constitute the greatest art that Western civilization has ever produced. The fact that he was a bonehead in regard to social and political issues shouldn't factor in our appreciation of the art he left us. The world will be a far far better place when they separate the man from the music. <br /><br />So many people could gain so much from those operas. Just watch and listen and don't worry about it. LIVE.Andy DiGelsominahttp://lyraka.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331917990627226586.post-42595477099954593302010-05-27T06:18:28.987-07:002010-05-27T06:18:28.987-07:00as for the cellist, that's a personal horror a...as for the cellist, that's a personal horror and completely understandable; as it would be if sher were forced to play mozart or handel. but yes we can't universalise hatred and resentment.fred, dux hominumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06310017562311163045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331917990627226586.post-25263604131488018562010-05-27T05:38:53.610-07:002010-05-27T05:38:53.610-07:00To coin a phrase, I agree with you Fred! I'm s...To coin a phrase, I agree with you Fred! I'm sure that if we delved too deeply into the life of that greatest of writers, Shakespeare, unpalatable truths would emerge. Likewise, TS Eliot's work are replete with anti-semitic references, (views which were considered "normal" for middle class intellectuals at the time) but that didn't stop his poems being an A level text, or the work of a talented poet for that matter. <br />One can, and probably must, separate the man from his work indeed. Hearing a recording of Eliot reading The Wasteland in a deadly, droning monotone was quite a shock, as was learning that he was a banker. But so what? The text speaks for itself.<br />Heidegger is bound to come up in this context, of course, but one shouldn't let his views detract from the valuable elements of his thought, in my view. In fact, it would be very difficult indeed to find any artists with whom we were in total accord. <br />That said, I can understand why a Holocaust survivor who was forced to play Wagner at the age of 16 in a concentration camp might have been appalled at the prospect of Fry going to Neuremberg or Bayreuth to listen to Wagner. That said, paradoxically, Wagner's music saved her life. If she hadn't played cello she would have been yet another victim of the gas chambers. <br />One commentator on the programme called Wagner "a nasty little man" whose anti-Jewish stance was largely generated by his jealousy of the success of Jewish composers such as Mendelsohn, while his own music was ignored. So what? Why, and how, would self-proclaimed music geniuses be paragons of virture? Presumably the two states of being are mutually exclusive.<br />As for Wagner's works' lyrics and narrative, <br />(for example, The Ring's farrago of nonsense featuring gods and nieblungen) well plenty of material for ideological discord there, but really, it is to be hoped that art has the ability to transcend all of that...<br />RuthRuth Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16653229851182852342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331917990627226586.post-10991755633604779582010-05-27T05:12:59.403-07:002010-05-27T05:12:59.403-07:00I think that here we should embrace the death of t...I think that here we should embrace the death of the artist. Imagine you had never heard of wagner and one day you here a piece of his music which moves you to tears of passion. Should you then discover the facts of the composer's life, would you cancel your emotion, your love for the music? Should we not read Ted Hughes because he was a violent, abusive husband, or find caravaggio's paintings beautiful because he murdered someone (apparently)? Fry, for some reason always reminds me of oscar wilde (for various reasons) who famously said 'all art is useless, so is a flower.' that is, art should have no political or moral function, it should be enjoyed for what it is: beauty. I fear that if we start selecting art based on the characters of the artists we may end up losing a lot. there is of course, the age old heidegger debate but should we also not read aristotle because he advocated slavery and male chauvinism? Not read the psalms because king david was a bloody warrior? where does this moral selectiveness stop?fred, dux hominumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06310017562311163045noreply@blogger.com